This is not supposed to be a flame, but for those interested this is what
I think on the whole affair. And I agree with Dave Walker it has got a
bit antagonistic. Delete appropriately to how *you* think. Jamie, close
your eyes :)
I've been *very* happy with IDM content (even the odd flamey squabble
like this has novelty value) and still am. I think one has to accept with
*all* lists you are going to be faced with crap you're not into...but I
don't think there has been a single day when at least 1 post didn't
pique my curiosity.
Now /that/ you know, here's the contraversial stuff....
Jamie? Could it be that you're just annoyed we aren't talking about YOUR
record? ie +8030 Born under a Rhyming Planet? Which I have and like
(bit's of) btw. It's very easy to say "Ah but I'm so much cooler than you
are" and maybe you are, I would certainly love to be on first name terms
with Ritchie Hawtin, but there's no need to ram it down our throats.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In many ways I totally agree with you about the limits of IDM, it is
limited, I would love more talk about the early Detroit scene, which is
WELL within the limits of IDM, but people are limited to discussing what
they know and can afford (my problem). AI and Aphex are the very visible
elements of 'IDM' or pure techno and hence come in for lots of
discussion. AFX *is* pure techno. This is an undeniable fact whether you
like it or not. ('cos I say so :) :)
IDM as a concept is very tricky one, it is very difficult to define as we
all know.
I think Fluid has done a good job in nudging the list in the right
direction, but I think in many ways ths list is self regulating, as it
should be. Jamie wants more talk about PURE techno, the underground
stuff, the real techno. Yeah so do I, but I can only talk about what I
know and I don't have any Iridal stuff or this that or the other, so go on
then TALK about it! I'm willing to listen and I'm sure others are.
I see the list as a forum for discussion on PURE techno and it's
trappings. This excludes 2 Unlimited but includes Autechre. I may not
like Autechre much but I accept that they have a pure techno form.
However "simple" their music might be.
I find it crazy that someone might think this list is limited to RDJ or
Warp. Remember Fluid started this list originally as a discussion group
for RDJ, but widened it to something he called IDM, using the AI series as
a template. But AI was NO MORE than that, a template. A basis for
discussion, a reference point. Well that's how I saw it anyway. I post
about the music I like, the music that turns me on, it happens to be pure
techno, almost solely. I accept breakbeat has it's (few :) merits as does
gabba, they serve a purpose as does the pure stuff.
Warp's AI series has come in for some unfair critism I think. At the time,
it was (for most people) something new and it introduced a whole load of
people to the pure techno genre, all well and good. Do people really
think that WARP honestly think AI is cutting edge? Well I can tell you now
they don't. The guys at WARP, like Jamie, know where *it's* at, but they
also have to sell records, the packaging and contents did reflect this;
however I think it's wrong to knock WARP for trying. I genuinely believe
the AI series was born out of a desire to bear pure techno to a wider
market (and make some money in the process). AI doesn't pretend to be the
be all and end all of pure techno - a trip into WARP the shop will
demonstrate this, tonnes of the hottest, most obscure, bleepiest,
squelchiest, darkist, bassiest techno. And I'm sure it's not the only shop
in the world to supply it. So folks get out there and hunt it down. This
is half the thrill of techno!
PS.
(Actually I consider Cybersonik - Jackhammer to be a fairly 'pure' record,
an experiment in hardness, as is a lot of RDJ's stuff.)
PPS.
Jamie, I hope I haven't flamed you to death, but, please, drop those Names
carefully. You have a valid point to make, just make it carefully...
Peace...Please!
greg
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